Dragon ([info]ryuutchi) wrote,
@ 2009-09-10 13:52:00
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Current mood: cynical
Current music:Maurissa Tancharoen - Nobody's Asian in the Movies
Entry tags:fandom, metameta, rage

Sorry, I keep forgetting to finish that meme
I glanced at Luminosity ([info]sockkpuppett)'s post from the other day (screencap here).

Now, [info]ms_treesap has a great post about it, and [info]the_wanlorn similarly is awesome about pointing out the ridiculous assumptions contained within the post.

I'd like to make one more, rather less ragey note about the ridiculousness of Luminosity's failure to understand fandom:

I'm going to say that I don't really understand it.

I mean, that's not to say I haven't done my fair share of bitching about fandom and how I hate the direction it's going, but I usually also turn around and find something else to do in fandom. I got to the point where I hated Wincest? [info]amchara founded [info]spn_summerlove, and I had a source for fic about the women on SPN. When I get tired of the racism and sexism meta I go looking for porn. And honestly, regardless of how much racism and sexism meta there is, it's not hard to find. When I do my relatively rare meta-ing, I write about what interests me. Maybe I'm not as pressured because my many fandom friends are scattered over multiple fandoms, so I don't worry about the crushing weight of fandom dislike (and also, I enjoy meta-ing about race and gender), but if I feel like meta-ing about Hardison's awful accent in The Ice Man Job, I don't think anyone's going to yell at me for disrespecting him for being Black. And if I meta about the fact it does seem like Leverage sidelines the character and that might be because he's Black-- that also is okay. People might disagree, people might agree, people might very well fucking ignore it, but I do it because the topic is there and it's something I want to talk about, not because this is work for me. And you know what? If people ignore it, they're free to.

And therein lies the reason the post rubbed me wrong-- Wanlorn and Tree are totally correct in pointing out how utterly privileged Luminosity was being, but even those of who do try and keep up with the *fails get tired after a while. Shocking, I know, but it burns a person out. But this is fucking fandom. When you get tired, there are other places for you to go and recharge-- I can think of several communities created by FoC for FoC so they could be fannish and recharge and just have fun. I can think of plenty of non-political fic and meta communities that anyone can join and recharge.

Not only was she being privileged in that she refused to understand why so many people have gotten politicized (and, yes, Luminosity, fandom used to be political just by being-- we've grown out of that and now we have to work at keeping our subversive cred, sorry), but she was being privileged by dismissing out of hand the idea that this stuff tires EVERYONE out. And that's why only part of fandom is extremely vocal about it. No one's going to begrudge you ignoring some of it and recharging your batteries. We will begrudge you acting like we're trying to make life hard for you.

Go find a fucking fic community and don't act like a goddamn martyr.




(16 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]the_wanlorn
2009-09-10 10:26 pm UTC (link)


The thing that really pissed me off enough to make a post was that she's acting like it's hard to avoid *fail.

I'm pretty sure I managed to 100% avoid reading anything about RaceFail, even though my flist and meme were full of it. And it wasn't even hard. Am I worse-off for choosing to ignore that latest *Fail? Yeah, I am, I could have learned a lot and I'm kind of regretting it now. But was it difficult? That's like asking if it's difficult to ignore the anime posts on my flist.

(HI CAN WE TALK ABOUT MY EPIC LOVE FOR HARDISON AND HOW AMAZING HE IS AND HOW HE'S LIKE MY FAVORITE TV CHARACTER EVER IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE AND HOW I WANT TO MARRY ALDIS HODGE AND AND AND *___________________*)

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[info]lady_ganesh
2009-09-11 01:36 am UTC (link)
The scroll button exists. Really. And people use it all the time!

(HERE HAVE AN ICON. WE SHOULD START A CLUB. OR A COMM. marry_me_aldis.)

Also, that angry post is FULL OF WIN.

Edited at 2009-09-11 01:38 am UTC

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[info]the_wanlorn
2009-09-11 12:30 pm UTC (link)
Thank you!

Have you seen the video he made of Things He's Learned From Leverage? (I don't remember what it was actually called.) It made me *_____* all over the place.

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[info]technocracygirl
2009-09-11 01:45 pm UTC (link)
Ooooh, that sounds tasty! Could you post a link? Pretty, pretty, please?

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[info]ms_treesap
2009-09-11 03:05 am UTC (link)
Am I worse-off for choosing to ignore that latest *Fail?

Possibily? Although I found myself unable to keep away from the linkspam until the sight of rydra_wong's name made me shake with associated rage.

That's like asking if it's difficult to ignore the anime posts on my flist.

I hate that comparison, and I'm sure you can see why.

I could give you some links if you like?

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[info]the_wanlorn
2009-09-11 12:29 pm UTC (link)
Sorry! I meant that no one ever bitches about their being too much of X fandom they're not into on their flist, they just scroll by. But suddenly when it's about expecting them to be a decent person, their scroll button is broken.

Which, hey, theoretically is a good thing! Because it will force them to learn to be a decent-er person! OR, AT LEAST, IN MY HEAD THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.

I was just going to start going through rydra_wong's links, but I would appreciate a sort of highlights list of places to start!

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[info]ms_treesap
2009-09-11 01:00 pm UTC (link)
Ah, your metaphor makes sense now! LOL WHINIEST FANDOMERS.

This Aqueductpress post is a good place to start, as is You mean those giant brains are making everyone stupid from later on in the Race Fail, after [info]coffeeandink was outed by a published arsehole whom I won't name because he Google searches himself. I also liked We worry about it too, and Sound Advice is lolzily useful.

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[info]ryuutchi
2009-09-11 08:01 pm UTC (link)
Disregard that! I can find things on my own.

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[info]ryuutchi
2009-09-11 07:55 pm UTC (link)
It's not so much that it made me angry that it bewildered me. I mean, I didn't even know there was a new *Fail until I saw her screencap on meme and started following links. If you're that privileged that the mention of it somewhere in fandom makes ALL of fandom ten times harder for you, than you're privileged enough to be able to dismiss it all and find a fic community to pay attention to.

I honestly think her problem is that the ideas have wormed into her head and it's harder to ignore the concepts than the actual talking.

(HARDISON IS AMAZING AND I LOVE HIM FOREVER AND YOU CAN MARRY ALDIS IF WE CAN HAVE A GROUP MARRIAGE, OKAY.)

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[info]amchara
2009-09-10 10:58 pm UTC (link)
I understand what you're saying. I get where you're coming from. Hell, I made a huge-ass post a few weeks ago about a massive disability fail. I go to different fandom areas all the time because one particular area is lacking.

At the same time:

People might disagree, people might agree, people might very well fucking ignore it, but I do it because the topic is there and it's something I want to talk about, not because this is work for me. And you know what? If people ignore it, they're free to.

I sometimes wonder if this might be best practice for [info]sockkpuppett's post and others similar to it, rather than have a number of different people call her out on it. I don't know... it just that it is her journal, her opinion... she's not posting it in communities where others can see... why not just let sleeping dogs lie? It's not likely going to make anyone's fandom experience better, hers or yours. People who have seen it are going to draw their conclusions.

But that's my view. I guess I'm all burnt out of rage at the moment. And obviously if you feel strongly about it, you should post about it. But since you left this post open to comments, that's my two cents.

And I didn't run [info]spn_summerlove this year - I hope you and others were able to find some awesome SPN female fic if you wanted it.

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[info]the-willow.insanejournal.com
2009-09-11 02:20 am UTC (link)
why not just let sleeping dogs lie

Cause I don't want fandom infested with fleas maybe?

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[info]amchara
2009-09-11 03:26 am UTC (link)
Fair enough. You, [info]ryuutchi and others who are talking about don't need mine or anyone's permission or approval to talk about these issues. I apologize if it came across that way, or if I implied it wasn't worthwhile.

I've recently had several personal discussions about privilege with others in my offline life that have been less than fruitful. The discussions were tense and exhausting and the results discouraging, so it's coloured my views towards these types of discussions at the moment and the way in which we engage in them.

I'm going to withdraw from this conversation now since I don't have anything useful to add.

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[info]ryuutchi
2009-09-11 08:15 pm UTC (link)
she's not posting it in communities where others can see... why not just let sleeping dogs lie?

I think we'll probably start getting into one of those "you're being intolerant of my intolerance" recursion loops if we start this up. Also, I tend to assume any open post is open for anyone to read-- a college friend once told me he wouldn't "write anything in a blog that he wouldn't shout off the top of a large building". Any opinion stated in an open post is stated openly for anyone to think/talk about.

For me, personally, while my post was tipped off by Luminosity in particular, it's an attitude I've heard more than once and bothered me every time. Like a couple of people have said, it's not just Luminosity's post, it was the comments. It's something that's been bandied about before too-- this idea of "if you're talking about ~politics~ somewhere in fandom, then it's ruining my fandom experience ZOMG" without any sort of self-reflection or understanding of how fandom works.

Anyway, I haven't really found a consistent source of SPN female fic, but occasionally [info]comment_fic drops me a bone. >:( Maybe when Ellen and Jo come back next week?

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[info]lady_ganesh
2009-09-11 01:41 am UTC (link)
I already ranted about this in someone else's journal. There were a lot of ALL CAPS. The post itself didn't make me as angry as the comments, though. Fucking hell, the COMMENTS.

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[info]ryuutchi
2009-09-11 08:15 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, pretty much. I think my reaction was to tilt my head and go "Bwuh?" And then the rage started.

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[info]lady_ganesh
2009-09-12 01:56 am UTC (link)
The OP was 'yeah, maybe sometimes, but...' and then WHAT. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS.

(Edited to clarify)

Edited at 2009-09-12 01:56 am UTC

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